regular vac to turbo?

[Bubbles Galore]

How hard would it be to make a regular vac into a turbo vac? Ideas? Thoughts? Opinions?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Are you wanting to make a two motor vac a three motor? I've done that on numerous D&S vacs. They had a blanking plate where a 3rd motor would go. It was pretty much just add the 3rd motor and associated parts. It should be easy enough on other vacs, providing the original two motors are situated so that they leave room for a 3rd. You would have to cut the hole for the 3rd motor and just install the parts like the other two. If your vac doesn't already have a relay for the motors you would definitely need to add one along with the 3rd motor. Also, #10 wire is needed for three motors. If you have smaller wire you will need to pull larger or make other provisions.

 

[MEP001]

I've started switching motors from Lamb/GS to the Domel from Windtrax, part # DOMEL 492. It has more CFM and more vacuum lift than either the Lamb or the GS, and it's quieter than either. The difference is noticeable, and the cost is less than $20 more. The only issue is that the motors are slightly taller. On the Industrial/Doyle vacs we have, I just stretched the band a bit.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Thanks for the tips! What I really want to be able to do is allow the customer to choose whether or not they want the turbo vac. Like a push button setup where the time is adjusted according to their selection. How hard would that be?

 

[MEP001]

That would be much more difficult. You would either need a timer that can do dual time (You'll want to or you'll lose the biggest benefit to switchable turbo), or two separate timers using the method of the older Coleman vacs. If I were to do something like that, I would probably use an IDX digital readout timer which would both simplify the wiring and allow for a message and the dual timing. You would also need a check valve on the third motor, otherwise when just two are running they will pull air through the third motor. Fragra*Matics uses a higher-flow motor for the third one on their turbo-vacs.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I kind of thought that it might be a little difficult. I just like the idea of allowing the customer the option to choose(and see a substantial difference) rather than just telling them there are now 3 motors and jack up the price? Make sense?

 

[I.B. Washincars]

I kind of thought that it might be a little difficult. I just like the idea of allowing the customer the option to choose(and see a substantial difference) rather than just telling them there are now 3 motors and jack up the price? Make sense?

In theory it may make sense, but in the real world, not really. I converted all of my vacs to 3 motor 10 or so years ago and raised the price to a buck. The only comments I have ever gotten is that I have the best vacs around. I've never had anyone request a less powerful vac. The turbo option is more of a marketing gimmick than an option. Do you think anyone really "chooses" the less powerful setting? Does anyone choose the dimmer setting on a three-way bulb? I'm not saying the 2 motor selection won't get used some, but more than likely it's because the switch is already in that position and the next customer doesn't change it.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Good point. I currently have #12 wire at my vacs. I could probably pull new wire, but what did you mean about 'other provisions'.

 

[pitzerwm]

#12 will handle 20amps unless the run is too long.

 

[I.B. Washincars]

Good point. I currently have #12 wire at my vacs. I could probably pull new wire, but what did you mean about 'other provisions'.

Jim at etowahvalleyequipment.com developed a gizmo to stagger/alternate the start of the three motors so the #12 wire wouldn't be overloaded.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

Great! I will have to give my buddy Jim a call and see what he can do for me. This sounds like a fairly easy Saturday afternoon project.

 

[Randy]

I remember years ago at one of the ICA conventions talking with the old guy who ran the Smooth Bore Vacuum hose, we?d talk about this and laugh about it every year I saw him. He thought it was funny that everyone was on a 3 motor vac kick. He said that by adding a third motor to a vacuum you?re not going to increase the amount of flow in the vac hose. The max CFM you can get through a 2? Vac hose is 210 CFM, the more motors you add will not increase the amount of CFM?s up the hose. It?s still going to be 210 CFM. I?ve never tried to prove him right or wrong that?s just what I remember him telling me.

 

[MEP001]

The turbo vacs made by Fragra*Matics use a third motor with a higher suction. The "turbo" creates more suction. When you create a greater vacuum inside the cannister, the amount of air flow through the hose will increase. It's like trying to rate a 2" piece of pipe to a specific flow rate when the water pressure can affect how much can get through.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I posted this question on an engineering forum and am still waiting for a response. I would think that you should be able to increase the cfm of suction....maybe.

 

[MEP001]

I would think that you should be able to increase the cfm of suction....maybe.

Just to be clear, CFM is a measure of volume in cubic feet per minute, and vacuum is measured in inches of mercury, basically the difference in pressure inside and outside a vessel (In this case the vacuum tank). If you add a third motor of the same type, you will increase the CFM to some degree partly because you'll be increasing the difference in pressure. The nozzle and hose will create some resistance, but with the third motor pulling more air out of the tank there will be more vacuum and flow with the hose and nozzle allowed to "free flow". The actual vacuum created when you cover the nozzle will be the same. If the third "turbo" motor creates more vacuum lift than the other two, then the actual vacuum inside the tank will be greater when the third motor is running, especially when the nozzle is covered.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

What you're saying is that I need to get a motor that has a larger suction capacity than the two that I already have. Right?

 

[MEP001]

That's if your goal is to have more actual vacuum lift, i. e. the nozzle will stick better against carpet and mats. If you just want more flow, then a third motor of the same type is all you need.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

In your opinion, which one makes more sense to do? I think it would be a great selling point.

If I'm not mistaken, this won't be that difficult to do. I should be able to leave the two existing motors alone and then take the 'new' motor and have it wired through a time delay relay so I don't trip my 20 amp breaker, correct? That way I won't have to run any new wire and I won't overload the circut. Tell me if I'm missing something.

 

[MEP001]

In your opinion, which one makes more sense to do? I think it would be a great selling point.

You never answered whether you wanted a switchable "turbo" feature. If you just want to give more "bang" for your customer's buck, you could add a third mormal motor. If you want to give them the option of a normal vac and more time or the turbo feature and make the vacs more profitable for yourself, go with the high lift motor and two-timer.

 

[Bubbles Galore]

I don't see it as being as cost effective to have to redo all the timers and install a switch. I was thinking instead of being $1/4 minutes, I could put in the extra motor and market it accordingly and price it at $1/3 minutes.

I was also thinking about how difficult it would be to retrofit in a Mars bill acceptor. So many options.