The 4050 tips came with the system which was purchased from Dultmeier. The tips are V-Spray Brand and have 1/8" NPT thread. I'll try increasing the pump pressure to 80 psi and see what difference it makes. Could be that I need a smaller orifice and take out the foam generator.
Foam brush plumbing...Attn: 2Biz
- Thread starter cantbreak80
- Start date
FYI....I found the 4040 tips in 1/8" npt at KR...They had them burried deep under "Other Products"....
http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-18062-spraying-systems-h18u-ss4040-18-male-spray-tip.aspx
http://www.kleen-ritecorp.com/p-18062-spraying-systems-h18u-ss4040-18-male-spray-tip.aspx
cantbreak80
Maybe I need new clubs
I’ve been in the “no foamer” camp for about 10 years. I recently re-plumbed my low pressure systems with new ¼” PE tubing. In the process, I assembled some foamers from Home Depot parts…lightly packed with pieces of 3M scrubber pads.
On a scale of 1-to-10, my foam brushes and foam guns went from 8 to 12.
The foamers made a significant improvement in the foam gun application…from spitting and sputtering to smooth and consistent. With no other changes to the system, my foaming pre-soak and tire cleaner consumption has gone up. I’m attributing that to increased customer usage due to the improved quality of application.
FWIW...I am no longer an advocate for no foamers.
On a scale of 1-to-10, my foam brushes and foam guns went from 8 to 12.
The foamers made a significant improvement in the foam gun application…from spitting and sputtering to smooth and consistent. With no other changes to the system, my foaming pre-soak and tire cleaner consumption has gone up. I’m attributing that to increased customer usage due to the improved quality of application.
FWIW...I am no longer an advocate for no foamers.
I think I've mentioned this before, but will repost. My Tri-Foam system from Dultmeier has basically a manifold above the bay (Like you have CB80) with an addition of a 3-4" long exit pipe nipple from the "Tee". Inside this nipple is spiral Stainless Steel piece's of metal that helps to mix the air and chemical. They look like Spiral Drill Chips but not exactly the same... I think it works great and have never had the first issue with it. If/when I get a chance to change over my FB to the new poly tubing, I might have to purchase the manifolds from Dultmeier so it has the "Foamers" installed. See link...
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/2527
http://www.dultmeier.com/products/search/2527
Cb80....after giving my FB much thought and because of the way its designed, I'm not going to winterize with an Idec and washer fluid/methanol system. I'm going to add a dual Eductor Setup on my Hydrominder and switch between methanol FB soap and regular FB soap depending on temperature. I bet I will save 75% in methanol soap over the course of a winter. I usually switch to methanol soap in December and back to regular soap in April...That's a big waist I need to correct.
Maybe it looks like I have plenty of time on my hands?!?!?!? I don’t think so, but I sure am glad I made this little Fb, PS, Etc. test stand. I am in the process (Finally) of upgrading my LP functions at the wash and wanted to simplify the testing process. I made a few different FB/PS generators I wanted to test, but didn’t want to take a bay down (Plus climb up in the attic 50 times while making changes), so I made the test stand to make things go easier.
FWIW…For those of you who get good foam not using needle valves, I don’t know how you do it. I tried every regulator setting under the sun to get good foam, but it wasn’t happening. The chemical flow was not consistent at all. I was getting up to about 20 oz per minute fluctuations in flow per Flojet pump cycle. Flow would drop off to about 0 flow before it would cycle. This caused too lean of a mixture every time the pump cycled.
Adding a needle valve and setting Flojet pressure to 60 psi fixed it instantly. I could dial in about 20 oz flow and it would hold steady with no fluctuations showing on the Dwyer flow meter. Perfect foam consistently.
I also tested a few generators I made. One made out of ¾” brass with 3m SS Scrubber pad and one made with PVC with nylon scrubber pad. I also tested different size Polyethylene tubing (3/8 and 1/2”) from the generator to the FB hose just for sh$ts and giggles. Once I added the needle valve, there was no real noticeable difference in the generators or tubing.
So…I just wanted to share what I found through my “Experimentation” and to document what I did. The forum is like my Diary! Sometimes I have to re-read some of my old posts to figure out what I did at the time.
FWIW…For those of you who get good foam not using needle valves, I don’t know how you do it. I tried every regulator setting under the sun to get good foam, but it wasn’t happening. The chemical flow was not consistent at all. I was getting up to about 20 oz per minute fluctuations in flow per Flojet pump cycle. Flow would drop off to about 0 flow before it would cycle. This caused too lean of a mixture every time the pump cycled.
Adding a needle valve and setting Flojet pressure to 60 psi fixed it instantly. I could dial in about 20 oz flow and it would hold steady with no fluctuations showing on the Dwyer flow meter. Perfect foam consistently.
I also tested a few generators I made. One made out of ¾” brass with 3m SS Scrubber pad and one made with PVC with nylon scrubber pad. I also tested different size Polyethylene tubing (3/8 and 1/2”) from the generator to the FB hose just for sh$ts and giggles. Once I added the needle valve, there was no real noticeable difference in the generators or tubing.
So…I just wanted to share what I found through my “Experimentation” and to document what I did. The forum is like my Diary! Sometimes I have to re-read some of my old posts to figure out what I did at the time.
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2Biz, which of the Formers you tested preformed the best, the PVC one with nylon scrubber pad or the ¾” brass with 3m SS Scrubber pad? My Foam generators are in the equipment room and are I believe nothing but hollow piece of 1" pipe, they've been there 32 years now. The air and foam brush soap come together at the bottom and are mixed inside the foam generator. I do have needle valves to control he flow.
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After installing the needle valve, I couldn't tell a difference. If I get time tonight, I will take the Stainless Steel scrubber pad out of the brass pipe and see how it reacts. If there's no difference, I'd rather not put anything in the foamer at all....I'll let you know. It seems as though the needle valve is the most important part of the setup....
My foamers are currently in the ER like yours. The reason I'm moving them to above each bay is so I can winterize with Washer fluid. Can't do that when the foamers are in the ER. I'm also moving the PS off the HP gun so I can eliminate the weep shutoff solenoid. Thanks to CB80, he suggested this some time ago. Makes perfect sense to me...Trying to implement the KISS method....(Keep It Simple Stupid)!
BTW..I re-read this thread and it saved me about 300 feet of 1/4" tubing...Again thanks to CB80. I was planning on running separate air lines for each service to each foamer. Then after reading back through the posts, I realized you can tee all the air lines to a single foamer in the ER. IE; Bay (1) FB air and Bay (1) FB washer fluid air. Instead of running both air lines to the foamer, you can tee one in inside the ER. Will save tons of time and tubing!
My foamers are currently in the ER like yours. The reason I'm moving them to above each bay is so I can winterize with Washer fluid. Can't do that when the foamers are in the ER. I'm also moving the PS off the HP gun so I can eliminate the weep shutoff solenoid. Thanks to CB80, he suggested this some time ago. Makes perfect sense to me...Trying to implement the KISS method....(Keep It Simple Stupid)!
BTW..I re-read this thread and it saved me about 300 feet of 1/4" tubing...Again thanks to CB80. I was planning on running separate air lines for each service to each foamer. Then after reading back through the posts, I realized you can tee all the air lines to a single foamer in the ER. IE; Bay (1) FB air and Bay (1) FB washer fluid air. Instead of running both air lines to the foamer, you can tee one in inside the ER. Will save tons of time and tubing!
MEP001
Well-known member
2Biz, I plan to do some more testing with foamers like the one I made with disks inside with holes, mainly because I want to find something that will work and not clog. I've used both the nylon things and the stainless scrubbers, and unless I run bleach through the foam brush system on a routine basis they eventually get stopped up with slime.
You will have better results without needle valves by adding a liquid pressure regulator downstream of the FloJet so you can increase its pressure to prevent it from stalling. I'd still rather have needle valves to reduce the flow to the bay.
You will have better results without needle valves by adding a liquid pressure regulator downstream of the FloJet so you can increase its pressure to prevent it from stalling. I'd still rather have needle valves to reduce the flow to the bay.
The PVC foamer like you see in the photo has nylon scrubbers in both ends with an air space in the middle. The nylon is held in place with 1/4" poly tube drilled thru the pipe where the coupler/sleeve will cover up the drilled hole. I cut one apart that was in my ER just to see how it was made. It was as clean inside as the day it was made. No slime.... I'm guessing it had been in service for over 30 years before it started leaking! I've heard of the slime get mentioned on here before. I don't seem to have that issue. Wonder what causes it? I use Warsaw chemicals...
I think needle valves are the answer too. And yes I will incorporate my Dwyers when I redo the LP part of the pump stand. I like them. I can instantly tell if something is wrong and can set each bay the same using the needle valves. Distance from the ER isn't a problem. My wash is a little different. My ER is between bay 3 and 4....Its a little lop sided when it comes to the plumbing lengths....The flow meters help me get each bay set the same.
I think needle valves are the answer too. And yes I will incorporate my Dwyers when I redo the LP part of the pump stand. I like them. I can instantly tell if something is wrong and can set each bay the same using the needle valves. Distance from the ER isn't a problem. My wash is a little different. My ER is between bay 3 and 4....Its a little lop sided when it comes to the plumbing lengths....The flow meters help me get each bay set the same.
Earl Weiss
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From the photos it loos like a coil type hose to the foam brush. Can't help but wonder if this has a different effect thatn a 3/8" HP hose might have . We use the HP hose because it won't kink like some lighter weight hoses which stops the weep and... . If this makes a difference, it may be why needle valves are a non issue.
You may be right Earl? But you'd think with the coiled hose it would be easier to make foam? Even without the needle valve.
Anyway, I removed the SS Scrubber out of the 3/4" pipe and ran another test. There was definetely a difference, but not significant. I would have to rate it like CB80, 8 without scrubber and 11 with. It was very noticable that the foam wasn't made untill the solution got to about a foot before going into the FB handle. With the scrubber pad, the foam was made and visible right after it left the foamer. I'm sure the 35' of coiled hose helps with making the foam.
Something else I noticed, to get good foam without the scrubber, air was a little more critical. It would spit and sputter more noticeably. Turning the air back any at all caused it to have the runs!
With the SS scrubber material installed, it was smooth. No spitting. More consistant. More forgiving.
Heres a few pics of the foam without the scrubber. Also note that when using the scrubber pad, I used a faucet washer like you'd use in a hydrominder to keep the SS Scrubber pad from going into the outlet of the pipe. Seemed to work great.
Anyway, I removed the SS Scrubber out of the 3/4" pipe and ran another test. There was definetely a difference, but not significant. I would have to rate it like CB80, 8 without scrubber and 11 with. It was very noticable that the foam wasn't made untill the solution got to about a foot before going into the FB handle. With the scrubber pad, the foam was made and visible right after it left the foamer. I'm sure the 35' of coiled hose helps with making the foam.
Something else I noticed, to get good foam without the scrubber, air was a little more critical. It would spit and sputter more noticeably. Turning the air back any at all caused it to have the runs!
With the SS scrubber material installed, it was smooth. No spitting. More consistant. More forgiving.Heres a few pics of the foam without the scrubber. Also note that when using the scrubber pad, I used a faucet washer like you'd use in a hydrominder to keep the SS Scrubber pad from going into the outlet of the pipe. Seemed to work great.
